Out-of-this-world advice
MSN should probably be the last place one should seek level-headed advice. They seem to specialize in sensationalist titles and articles (that promise to solve all your problems) to attract and keep attention. So I guess I really shouldn't be surprised by the feast offered in their "Hot on Hotmail" feature today "Should you marry a fixer-upper?". Curiousity gets the better of me in certain occasions and I clicked the link. It ended up being a "Ask Ann Landers" type of column.
Ann Landers actually offered sensible advice to people, but of course sensibility would be too much to ask from MSN. A woman was torn between marrying a man who is kind and loving to her, but doesn't have very high aspirations in life. The advice offered to her by their resident "expert" Mama Gena was that men in general don't have aspirations and that they need a woman to push them to achieve.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but not only am I surprised I am also in disbelief. People turn to these kinds of forums when they have real problems they are not sure how to handle. This woman was trying to answer one of the biggest questions in life - how do you reconcile love with people you are in love with. In other words relationships are about compromises. She loved this guy, but when she started thinking about marriage she started considering what he would be like as a partner. Of course, this is where the big decision came in... does she marry someone she loves, but who possibly might not go very far in life. These kinds of decisions go into the very heart of who we are as human beings and they are heart and gut wrenching.
In light of this situation she was told that she should forge ahead and make this guy into what she wants him to be. UNBELIEVABLE!! What is even more unbelievable is that Mama Gena actually quoted Beauty and the Beast to support her argument (as the woman brought up the fact that her beau's physical attributes leave a bit to be desired) and then twisted the story to suit her argument by saying: "And it was through her love and training that he turned into a prince." Training? I don't remember Belle training the Beast. What would that look like? Are we talking S&M here?
If you ask me a lot of partnerships (marriages or not) suffer from unrealistic expectations and attempts to mold the partner according to those expectations. To actually promote this trend as a way to happiness and bliss is beyond unconscientious - it is morally criminal!
To do my part I wrote her the following email.
------------------------------
Dear Ms. Thomashauer,
I was somewhat appaled by your answer to "Dating Exterminator". This woman found herself stuck with one of the great decisions in life (choosing a partner) and you advised her to go unilaterally ahead and project her expectations onto this man. In my humble opinion that is certainly not the way to start a productive and successful partnership. Perhaps this man is happy being who he is and does not need a woman to direct him. The least you could do was to advise her to have an open conversation with him about her wants and needs as well as his. I think that would've been a lot more productive way of approaching her qualms.
I most certainly hope that you will consider the consequences of your actions and respond more wisely in the future.
Kind regards,
------------------------------
I will post here if and when I receive a response. If you agree with this entry I would encourage you to write her as well. Giving advice like that is dangerous in my opinion and it should be pointed out.
References:
1. Should I marry my guy? - Mama Gena
http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=2557
2. Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts
http://www.mamagenas.com/
"Trains men & women of all ages to use the power of pleasure to have their way with the world."
Alrighty then. Way to contribute Mama Gena to making this world a better place!
Ann Landers actually offered sensible advice to people, but of course sensibility would be too much to ask from MSN. A woman was torn between marrying a man who is kind and loving to her, but doesn't have very high aspirations in life. The advice offered to her by their resident "expert" Mama Gena was that men in general don't have aspirations and that they need a woman to push them to achieve.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but not only am I surprised I am also in disbelief. People turn to these kinds of forums when they have real problems they are not sure how to handle. This woman was trying to answer one of the biggest questions in life - how do you reconcile love with people you are in love with. In other words relationships are about compromises. She loved this guy, but when she started thinking about marriage she started considering what he would be like as a partner. Of course, this is where the big decision came in... does she marry someone she loves, but who possibly might not go very far in life. These kinds of decisions go into the very heart of who we are as human beings and they are heart and gut wrenching.
In light of this situation she was told that she should forge ahead and make this guy into what she wants him to be. UNBELIEVABLE!! What is even more unbelievable is that Mama Gena actually quoted Beauty and the Beast to support her argument (as the woman brought up the fact that her beau's physical attributes leave a bit to be desired) and then twisted the story to suit her argument by saying: "And it was through her love and training that he turned into a prince." Training? I don't remember Belle training the Beast. What would that look like? Are we talking S&M here?
If you ask me a lot of partnerships (marriages or not) suffer from unrealistic expectations and attempts to mold the partner according to those expectations. To actually promote this trend as a way to happiness and bliss is beyond unconscientious - it is morally criminal!
To do my part I wrote her the following email.
------------------------------
Dear Ms. Thomashauer,
I was somewhat appaled by your answer to "Dating Exterminator". This woman found herself stuck with one of the great decisions in life (choosing a partner) and you advised her to go unilaterally ahead and project her expectations onto this man. In my humble opinion that is certainly not the way to start a productive and successful partnership. Perhaps this man is happy being who he is and does not need a woman to direct him. The least you could do was to advise her to have an open conversation with him about her wants and needs as well as his. I think that would've been a lot more productive way of approaching her qualms.
I most certainly hope that you will consider the consequences of your actions and respond more wisely in the future.
Kind regards,
------------------------------
I will post here if and when I receive a response. If you agree with this entry I would encourage you to write her as well. Giving advice like that is dangerous in my opinion and it should be pointed out.
References:
1. Should I marry my guy? - Mama Gena
http://msn.match.com/msn/article.aspx?articleid=2557
2. Mama Gena's School of Womanly Arts
http://www.mamagenas.com/
"Trains men & women of all ages to use the power of pleasure to have their way with the world."
Alrighty then. Way to contribute Mama Gena to making this world a better place!
posted by z @ 8:19 PM
6 Comments:
At 9:50 PM,
Anonymous said…
Aaaah! I broke down from curiosity and read the same article. The middle part annoyed me for all the reasons you stated. The end annoyed me for this: "Join the ranks of the brilliant man-trainers of the world: Women who use men to fulfill their dreams and desires!" Yes, because apparently men are necessary to have one's dreams and desires fulfilled. Sometimes I think articles like this are backlash from a reactive and desperate attempt to empower women to look out for their own pleasure and desires (in and out of bed) but it only creates corrupt, destructive, and off-putting attitudes that are no better than chauvinism.
E.
At 10:03 AM,
liz said…
ho-ly *shit* that marriage isn't going to last.
changing men drastically is not something that works. changing men in small ways is not something that works reliably either but at least it doesn't actively drive them away (as fast), though i'm not sure it's something i'd reccomend.
but ... that's Mama Gena's whole M.O. she writes books on how to train your man. she's got a whole series. and it doesn't stop there ... i think she's the yin to those yang-macho woods-and-fire-and-guns primal-screechy camps for emasculated yuppie men.
At 11:24 AM,
nell said…
Ugh! Z, your reply hit it right on. That's horrible advice. Any half-decent therapist knows that you can't base a relationship on assumptions of change! Yes, the best that poor girl can do is have a conversation with the guy and discuss her fears about their future, not "his" future. I think I might actually follow your example, here, though it won't be nearly as eloquent!
At 7:32 PM,
nell said…
Haven't heard anything on this, have you? I think the complaint emails are being ignored, surprise surprise!
At 6:48 PM,
Anonymous said…
I felt the same way! I also wrote her a letter due to my past experience. Here is the letter that I wrote her.
I recently read your article about the woman whom was dating the exterminator. You gave her the advice to point her man in the right direction, and compared it to beauty and the beast.
I just wanted to say that I too was in a situation like that and did try to encourage my boyfriend to follow his dreams. He had a wonderful talent and passion in art and had 60 credits in school without finishing his degree. I tried to help him go back to school even taking classes with him.
I helped him with fashion, cleaned up his credit, got him in touch with estranged family and raised his child with him for four years and did so out of love. He was a pool man working for his mother's company and was making just enough to get by. Until I bought a house for us 3 years into our relationship he lived with his mother rent free and shared a room with his son since birth. His child was seven years old at that time. He was complacent with that and I think didn't feel that he could really achieve more after being beaten down and controlled by his mother for years.(I can find something beautiful in anyone, but his mother was the nastiest, most evil, and bitter woman whom I had ever met.) He came from a poor family and I came from a well to do family and was not bothered by that at all. I would tell him class come from the person and how they carry themselves, not from where they came. He always wrote me letters saying that he feared my family and friends thought I settled for him and that he was terrified I would leave him. I would support him and tell him that if being a pool man was his passion then I was fine with it and would make the rest of the money to support our family and lifestyle upon marriage. This man was extremely in love with me and I was not "in love" with him but did love him with all of my heart. I would try to express that if being a pool man was what he wanted that was fine but to at least finish his degree so that 10 years down the road and more children he would have options and not feel stuck in this career with no way out and a family to support.
He tried for 4 year to be what he though I wanted and then one day like a switch moved out of the house I bought for he and his son while I was at work. There was no notice. The night before he rubbed me intensely and told me how much he loved me, the next morning he brought me breakfast in bed, and then told me in a parking lot that he had moved his stuff out of the house after letting me watch his sons little league game which I was a kinda of team Mom for. When I came home, he had taken everything but had gone to the store and picked up my prescriptions and left them on the counter.
Since that time, we have spoken 2 the first time he told me "of course he still loved me" and a week later was very nasty and denied me seeing his son. That was the last time we have ever spoken. I called him once about tapes I had of his son's first experiences...(ie:first time riding a bike, swimming, playing t-ball) and he did not even return the call. It has been six months and I have not heard from him and don't think I will. Not only did he move out and leave me with everything, deny me his son that I was a mother to, and act like a coward, but as soon as we broke up he reverted back to his old behavior and went out and got more tattoo's (which I was against as he already had 6) down his arms. It was like he was boycotting everything I stood for.
My point to this is that, I did all of the right things and accepted him for whom he was but still showed him a better path if he wanted it. Sometimes people will do what they think YOU want them to do and then resent you in the end. I always made sure anything I said was constructive and not hurtful, but it still worked out that way.
Bottom line is that you can show someone a path, but if it is not in them to pursue they won't. They may try, but will eventually run in the other direction.
You can't fit a square peg into a round whole.
Thank you,
Belle
At 1:39 AM,
Anonymous said…
Belle,
you did all of the right things by supporting your man. He was not up to the task, which is why you cannot try to change some one contrary to Mama Gena's manipulative instructions. Sometimes people don't try for better because they either don't know what it is or are scared of failure. It seems to me that your man was scared of failing you.
Everything happens for a reason..you seem to be better off.
Janet
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